To wrap up Pride Month, Angel City's editorial content manager, Katelyn Best, set up a Zoom conversation with members of the ACFC family who identify as LGBTQ+. The wide-ranging discussion touched on queer representation in soccer, intersectionality, and some really awkward coming out conversations. It has been edited for length and clarity.
Katelyn Best: I’d like to start by giving a little background on the inspiration for this discussion. I moved here from Portland, where I was a freelance soccer writer and had a lot of friends in the Thorns supporter community. For me, women’s soccer was really big when it came to learning to love myself and accept myself. There are a couple of layers to that. First, women's soccer, coming from any other sport—I used to be a pretty big college football fan—and it's like night and day. You're going to see rainbow flags at women's soccer games. You don't hear people saying homophobic slurs. It just feels like a very safe space.
The other really big part of it for me was just meeting other queer women my age and making friends with them, which I hadn't really had a space to do before. That was so huge in learning to be happy with myself. So to start off, let's have everybody introduce themselves. Tell us about your relationship with soccer and share any initial thoughts on what it’s like being part of the LGBTQ+ community within soccer.
Paige Nielsen: I'm Paige. I was born and raised in Lincoln, Nebraska. We—I—didn't know that there was a queer community out there, as naive as that sounds. Everyone was straight. Everyone loved college football. We drank beer and we watched football. I was judged on what I wore every day. I was in with the popular group, but I knew I was so much more than that. I didn't really care what I wore, but I would still get made fun of. All my friends were rich. So many things.
And then when I went to college at North Carolina, my eyes totally opened. There were so many queer people, and I was accepted for what I wore and who I was—it was okay to be goofy, smart, whatever. And I was like, holy crap. Where did I grow up, and how many places are similar to mine? I’ve actually been far removed from that since I've been in the soccer community for a while. So I forget the impact it has on people now.
When LA came to me, I was like, this club is going to make a lot of changes, and I couldn't be happier to be a part of it.
Stacy McCay: I'm Stacy. I'm one of the Valkyries [an Angel City supporters group]. I'm a little bit older than most of you, so growing up was a lot different for me. Before ACFC joined the league, I was a Portland fan, and immediately, you’d look in the stands and the support for the LGBTQ+ community was always out in the open. I also like the WNBA, and I remember early on when they were like, “We can't have Gay Pride night because we want other people to come.” And now they're like, “Go gay people!” So I've been through no one ever talking about it to being in a very safe queer space through women's sports. I'm very, very open now, even when I travel. I did appreciate how from the beginning, Angel City hasn’t ignored that they have gay fans.
Jessica Guillen: I'm Jessica. I'm born and bred LA. I started AYSO when I was five and I was able to coach a little bit when I got older. Being Latina and queer or gay or lesbian—I identify as lesbian—it’s difficult. And growing up Catholic, too. So it was difficult to come out. When I was in high school, it was still not okay to be out. Even if you were on a women's soccer team, the basketball team, the softball team, it still wasn't okay per se to come out.
Then, growing up watching men's soccer and going to games with family and still hearing the [homophobic Spanish-language] slur every time the goalkeeper kicks the ball, and having to explain to family members why that's not okay. Even hearing it as a non-male-identifying person, it hurts. It makes me feel demeaned and unsafe. And so, you know, talking to your dad, talking to your brothers-in-law about what this means. It was hard.
And also, from the perspective of race—in LA, it’s a white girl sport, when you get up to the higher levels. So they didn’t have access to what those words mean. It was difficult to explain that to friends and people I used to play with, too, what this means for us. So, I guess looking at that with the lens of being brown or or-Latino identified in LA, you know, making soccer something that little brown girls can play and be a part of is important.
And now we're finding that community. I found our supporters group, Mosaic, and the women in the Supporters Group, some are from Central America like myself. It was so fun to find that. Then just being with random people in the stands and we're high-fiving each other and we're all wearing our pride gear on Pride Night. That was a blast. You just felt safe and open.
Lauren Valle: I’m Lauren, I'm Jessica's wife. We got married this year. I actually grew up playing water polo and swimming. I watched a little bit of soccer as a kid just because going to high school in the early 2000s, you can't help but see Mia Hamm. She was everywhere. My dad and my brothers were really into following men's soccer. My dad played through college, but it never really touched me until I met Jessica and started following the women's national team more closely. We even got to travel to the World Cup together in France in 2019.
When we heard we were getting a team again in LA, we were so excited about it. Since we joined Mosaic we've just felt welcomed into a family, and meeting other members of other Supporters Groups, same thing. We're all just really happy to be there, to be part of a community.There's just so much love for each other.
Chris Fajardo: My name is Chris. I'm the Senior Director of Community Impact at Angel City. My soccer journey is—it’s my life. There are literally pictures of me in the playpen standing on top of a soccer ball. It's just been a part of me forever.
My soccer journey has been exciting, but also really traumatic. Men's soccer is not always the most welcoming place. And I didn't have the words for it, but I knew when I was young that I was into boys or men—and more than anything, I knew I was different. I played through high school and I played in college and didn't have great connections with people. But playing was something that brought me joy.
I came out to my parents right after I finished school. The night I told my dad that I was gay, he told me it was great that I had my mom, and he hung up the phone. I knew I needed to get away, so I moved out of the country for a year and when I came back, I found this gay men’s soccer club in the Bay Area, where I’m from. It was everything that I didn’t know I needed. It was a sport I loved, people that I saw myself in. It was incredible. It brought me back to this sport and gave me these connections that I wanted so much. When I moved to LA nine years ago, I joined their sister club, and they’re like family. Being able to identify with the people around you is life-changing.
To come to Angel City and be able to create a space that is welcoming—or is aiming to be—that’s just such a fulfilling thing to be able to do, to be able to share something that I love and make sure that people feel as welcome as I always wanted to.
KB: Paige, what is your reaction to this as a player, hearing those fan stories and what this community means to them?
PN: Gosh, it's overwhelming. I get so inspired to see how much our community does for others. And it's exactly how I felt joining women's soccer. Listening to Chris, I thought of one of my best guy friends, who plays for San Diego Loyal, and I think he's one of the first guys to come out as gay. And I know how hard that is. People say it's a lot harder for men than women [in sports] to come out. I totally agree with that for so many reasons. But also it's hard for everyone in different circumstances.
When I look at our fans after the game and think about who we're playing for, to make them feel at home and to make everyone feel like there's a community that welcomes everyone—it's really amazing and overwhelming. There’s a sense of relief because I know how hard it is going through that journey. I feel lucky in so many ways, and I know a lot of people had a harder journey than I did, but it's still an everyday thing. It's still awkward conversations with friends. People don't really ask about my wife as much as they would if I had a hot husband. I'm just really excited to see that we have a community, we're affecting other people, but also that we have our own home and safe space.
KB: Just to sort of flip that around for a minute, I want to ask the supporters here—I'm curious about your perspective on this, Stacy—what is the importance of having people who are open members of the LGBTQ+ community visible as athletes? What does that mean to you guys?
SM: It's fascinating talking to younger people when you tell them, “There were no gay people [who were visible].” The Valkyries did an introduce-the-board thing and asked how everyone got into women's soccer? I went last and everyone had given all the good answers. So I was like, “lesbians!” So now it's kind of a joke that when somebody asks, “What are you doing today?” I say “lesbians.” I like that we can joke about that and it doesn't even faze them. It’s good that I can just walk out and be myself. At the 2015 World Cup, you know, we were all in a strange city, but 20,000 of my best friends were there, so I could do whatever I wanted—I could walk around with rainbow stuff on. It's cool to just be in that space now, having grown up without any acknowledgment that anything different existed.
JG: I experienced same thing—nobody's gay, you know? So now having that representation and normalizing that we could be out and it's okay, it's safe, and we can bring that safety to the players and to ourselves. Our nephew and niece come with us and they see that it doesn't matter who you are. You're just a player on the field. That's what I want them to see, that we could do whatever they want.
LV: It’s definitely exciting when you see people who are members of the LGBTQ+ community at a professional level. We were so fortunate to have the opportunity to come out and watch the practice yesterday and meet a couple of the players. I had brought my Angel City rainbow flag to get signed, and DiDi, as we were coming up to her, she goes, “Here come my rainbow warriors.” There was just this understanding, this welcoming feeling that we loved.
KB: Chris, you played in the Gay Games. Tell us about that experience.
CF: First, for anybody who doesn't know, there is something called the Gay Games. It originated from a past Olympian who was trying to create an offshoot of the Olympics for gay athletes. It started in 1982, the year before I was born, and it's like the Olympics—every four years it goes to different places. There are all different sports and you represent where you're from. I've gone to three now. I went first to Cologne, Germany, then Cleveland, Ohio, for my second. The last one in 2018 was in Paris, France, where my team won gold.
What I've learned from the people that I’ve played with, meeting all these different players from around the world, is there's a superpower that you develop as you come into your own, because there's something that you overcome. Whether you’re gay, lesbian, bi, however you identify, you have to come out in some way, if you choose to come out. You have to go through that process as opposed to just the assumption that you are straight, like the majority of the world. That means that you have to be brave in some way. Knowing that other people around you have gone through the same thing—there's this amazing connection that you make.
It doesn't matter where someone grew up. In any part of the world, they have their own version of the story, and some are amazing and fulfilling. Some are tragic. But then you make this connection, and to play a sport that you love—it's surreal. It's something that I never expected.
KB: Jumping off what you said about how the thing that unites everybody in the queer community is the coming out story, how we all have one—does anyone want to share theirs?
SM: Mine is boring. I just said, “I'm gay.” And then I was, and no one cared. Everyone already knew!
JG: My dad—mom had passed away already, so I was never able to come out to her—but I did come out to my dad, and he was sweet about it. He was confused. He brought in a little bit of the Jesus talk and was like, “Sometimes the temptations of the body make us do things, and it feels good.” It was horrible! That part was really uncomfortable. But he also said, “You're my baby and I will always love you.” But then my sisters—I have four sisters—and they all knew before I came out. They were like, “Oh my God, I thought you were going to tell us something scary!”
KB: That “temptations of the body” thing is so uncomfortable!
PN: That’s honestly how I've gotten people to change their minds. I’m like, “Isn't it weird that in order to go to heaven, you have to love a certain genital?” That really stirs people's minds.
I'll tell my story. My mom was sick in the hospital, and then she passed away. So she doesn't know. I came out to my sister first. In college, my family was visiting for my birthday. My girlfriend at the time, who was my first girlfriend, put sticky notes all over my dorm room for my birthday. I was like, “You know what? Perfect opportunity. Let's just leave these sticky notes up and then let them see it.”
My sister walks up the stairs and she goes, “Oh my God, your roommates did this for you for your birthday!” At first I go, “Yeah, yeah. They're really sweet.” And then she started reading them, and one said, “I love your smile.” And she's like, “Wait.” And I go, “Yeah, it was actually my girlfriend.” She paused. She goes, “Oh, my God. Everything makes sense now!” Then she said, “I've wanted to date women. Sometimes I think women are just better. Now you've got me thinking.”
But then, like Chris was saying, which coming out story? You have to come out to your brothers. Your extended family. I brought my wife to a little town in Nebraska for a family reunion, thinking, “this is not going to go well.” They all absolutely loved her. It was still really awkward because people don't understand. My brothers made lesbian jokes all the time. I still felt so weird.
It was a long journey, and to be honest, I think because my wife is what society would deem to be beautiful, it's easier on people. But it also makes me think about, what are people's grounds of acceptance? It's a constant coming out and reassuring people that this is who I am and you can’t do anything about it.
CF: You go through your own coming out and then there's going through somebody else processing. You're coming out and you're like, “I hope you understand how much work this was for me to just say these words” and then you have to go, “Now let me support you.”
I came home my sophomore year of college and I told myself on the drive home, if my mom asks, I'm going to say it. The first night, literally hours into coming home for the summer, my mom asked some questions and I came out to her and she gave me a look and walked out of the room. She came back maybe two hours later, eyes bloodshot. And she's like, we need to go on a walk. And it ended up being a two-hour walk, but the first of three months of walks.
She was processing this image of who I was and what she had hoped for me, and just reevaluating and evolving that image, and how safe she thought I would or wouldn't be—this idea of family, this image of a wife and kids. By the end of the summer, we were having such great conversations about how I could have all the things that I still wanted, even if it was a different gendered person on my arm. It just gave me so much hope that other other coming outs would be—not easy, but not awful.
PN: This Pride Month I challenged myself that anyone who came out to me or reached out in my DMs, I was going to respond individually and have an ongoing conversation with them. That experience blew my mind. There are so many people that are still struggling it’s made me realize I live in a bubble. I'm so thankful that I live in a bubble with you guys, but there are so many people hurting out there. One person told me about how her parents accepted one gay sister and not the other because their image of this person was so far different from her sister that they just couldn't grapple with it. I think it's going to change, but there's still a lot of hurt out there. It's definitely up to us to continue to continue to open people's minds and hearts.
I actually forgot a part of my coming out story, which is kind of funny. I wasn’t close to my dad growing up. He kind of messed up his life with alcohol and drugs. When I came out to him he was hilarious, he was like, “Well, how can I judge anyone? I'm a fuck-up! You deserve to be happy as long as you don't gamble, drink too much and don’t do drugs.”
This is what I learned during my mother's death: we're all just going to die. When you strip people's images of who they think they are, we can all become just humans and the core of who we are. It's so important to have that impact on others.
CF: Paige, as you mentioned, the intersectionality that exists—we're not just queer. There's also what nationality we are, what ethnicity. There's so many different ways that we exist in this world and this is one component. As you mentioned, that piece about your dad, it's like he's recognizing, “I've got all these other things that, if you compare us, how am I going to be the one who judges? You be you.”
When we look at, say, the Supreme Court recently, there's so many reasons why we need to come together. We don't just exist as individuals. If they come for one person’s reproductive rights, then who’s next? To be able to be there for each other as support and as allies, someone to march with, I think it can be such a powerful thing.
KB: That's actually a nice segue into another question for the room. As Chris alluded, there's a lot of scary stuff happening in politics—legislation getting passed across the country. For me, it's a scary time. What progress do you think still needs to be made, either in society as a whole or in sports?
JG: This is the big question, right? The tiny bubble that is ACFC—we feel comfortable and that leads to inaction. Lauren and I, we’ve thought about, what if our marriage is not recognized in the rest of the states? Right now it is. But tomorrow, that could be gone. We’ve been holed up in this LA bubble or this California bubble and feeling safe when, like what Chris was saying, they come for one, they come for everybody.
This isn't just women's rights. It's not just gay rights. Everybody is so intermingled and connected. These connections that we make, even in Supporters Groups or in soccer as a whole, where we get connected to people in Portland and in Seattle, and we start making that bigger community. That’s a little thing that we have been doing through soccer. But getting out and voting for local offices here in LA is very important because it literally trickles up.
CF: Representation matters. When I married my husband, I had a conversation with somebody beforehand that was like, make sure that people see you because that matters. You can be the model for someone. To pull this full circle, if we think about Angel City, we live in this bubble, but we have a platform and the fact that we use it and we have amazing players who use their platforms, all of that matters.
KB: I want to say one last thing before we wrap up. We would be remiss if we didn't bring up in this space, which is about sports, the current discourse about trans people in sports. Jumping off a couple things that some of you said, I think as far as coming together, what that means for me is that I feel like right now, I’m pretty safe. But I know that in the trans community things are a lot harder. So for me, I think coming together means defending like the most vulnerable people in our community. Does anybody have thoughts on that?
PN: I feel the same way. Unfortunately, I haven't had an opportunity to find a community of trans kids, trans people, to have conversations with them or to know how to be active in that space. How do we come together as a community around them? What are the next step here?
CF: One thing is that we have relationships with organizations that are having an impact within the trans community. One of the places to start is to support those organizations that are doing great work. I think, in the same way that representation matters, getting to know people for people, and then figuring out, which ways resonate with you to support that? Then for us to figure out, how do we use our platform to make the most impact as individuals and as a club. But there are lots in our backyard. The Los Angeles LGBT Center, which is a partner of ours, we partner with them on their Trans Pride event. It was last weekend. So that's one place.
KB: Quick closing thoughts from anybody?
CF: This has been a wonderful discussion. I just want to say thank you. It's so fun to see everyone, especially as the gay month is wrapping up so we can put our flags away and take a long overdue nap. It's amazing to hear just how incredible everybody is—how you've gotten to this place and what you believe in and how supportive you are.
PN: I feel the same way. I’ll wrap up with how Anson [Dorrance], my UNC coach, thinks that things will change. He’s a mormon. He’s like, “I've been praying for a mormon leader to have gay children so we can fully accept gay people.” I thought that was awesome. But yeah, thank you guys. I love having these conversations.